searching wallets when entering main stage area?!

[joker]

Jul 16, 2010 9:27:46 GMT -5 itrainmonkeys said:

So please stop acting like Nateva is crazy and that supporting Nateva has anything to do with a fascist United States.

We all know who's fault the searches were

[snowshoecapital]

Hey 1%ers, to all those who got your wallets or purses searched and feel violated: you are probably sketchy looking, and that is how life works. I could have picked out ten people per day at Nateva and probably eight of them would have proved to be a winning ticket, so to speak.

I don't happen to express myself through clothes, hair, body language, tattoos, etc., that happen to be consistent with one who carries or deals drugs. I don't do it intentionally, but, at the same time, I never get searched. A friend of mine got searched a couple of years ago and when they found weed on him I followed him like a phucking shadow and grabbed the weed and bowl from his pants while he was being escorted by two police officers, stashed it all and returned to it within the hour when he was freed to smoke our brains out. I don't think we once complained about the security - he looked sketchy; they picked up on it. We reacted and didn't act like the pussies I am hearing on this board.

Stereotypes form for a reason. If you fit into one then you are probably a conformist; a subscriber to a certain common lifestyle; and shouldn't be surprised when someone lumps you into a certain "profile". To those who don't give off the "I'm into stuff that isn't allowed" vibe who also got searched...well, that is also how life works. Not everything makes sense.

In order for Nateva to have taken place in Oxford I am sure that the organizers had to assure the police that certain security measures would be taken.

Ugh...grow up and complain after you realize how life works. If you don't like it, start your own festival.

Also, for freedom thinkers you all like to pretend being lawyers...it's my right this, my right that.... I had a moron tell me that I had to lock my $5,000 race bike to the chain link fence. After arguing for about one minute I realized that it would be better to just chain it up and then return after the shift change to get my bike, so I did.

You complainers need to stop complaining and instead just figure out a way to do what you want. If you can't figure out that, then don't do it.

You sound like a bunch of eight year olds.

You complainers need to stop complaining and instead just figure out a way to do what you want. If you can't figure out that, then don't do it.

You sound like a bunch of eight year olds.

One more time.

You complainers need to stop complaining and instead just figure out a way to do what you want. If you can't figure out that, then don't do it.

You sound like a bunch of eight year olds.

[mattinthehat]

God, where do I begin?
To start, ITM proves my point that he is absolutely clueless when it comes to our personal rights. Searching wallets is the same as searching bags? Please, stop being the apologist/grouse for Frank & Co.
You sarcastically comment that it is not 1967 anymore. Do you realize how you just made my point? I probably go to more live music performances in a (current) year than you could dream of, so the argument that things have changed is the issue. In the 60's, there was far more drug use than now, yet the security was not intrusive at all. So we fast forward to the present, where someone actually comes on a website and declares that he has no problem with wallet searches. Unbelievable. You are obviously a product of our current public education system. As I said previously, I have NEVER been asked to empty my pockets and empty my wallet before. That includes the last few years that you seem to think have established this precedent. I say BS. Just because other fests do it does not make it right. My comment about Rothbury had nothing to do with security, but was directed at the competition factor. If you have a choice between 2 festivals, and you have good or bad experiences at both, which one do you choose? I think it is safe to say that this board has spoken.
I would like to share my experiences with the Montreal Jazz Festival. It is 12 days this year, but when I went last time it was 10 days. Most of the downtown area is blocked off, so no traffic. The great part is that the police are stationed on the OUTSIDE of the fences. They only enter in the case of an emergency or a bad crime situation. Otherwise, they stay out. This is as it should be. Anything goes on within the confines of downtown, even on lower St. Catherine street, the infamous home of strip clubs, hookers, and the GLBT crowd, Not to mention the the street racers on their sport bikes. Yet, the cops stay OUTSIDE the barriers. There are beer bars everywhere, but there are also liquor bars as well. People smoke at will, and I assume other illicit activities occur as well. This is the model for how you run a festival and attract the maximum number of people possible. Like 500,000 people. Obviously, Nateva is not on this scale, but the model is the same. If festival goers have a good time, are not hassled (especially by DEA a-holes) and feel relaxed and comfortable, then they will return. If not, they will look at the competition. Business 101.

[mattinthehat]

By the way, somehow, the word "grouse" was substituted for the word "b***h, in my comments. A grouse is a wonderfully interesting bird that is also a gourmet treat to eat. It is not a substitute for the word bi*ch. Any website that deliberately alters posts to further their agenda is corrupt.

[itrainmonkeys]

Jul 17, 2010 2:42:04 GMT -5 mattinthehat said:

By the way, somehow, the word "grouse" was substituted for the word "b***h, in my comments. A grouse is a wonderfully interesting bird that is also a gourmet treat to eat. It is not a substitute for the word bi*ch. Any website that deliberately alters posts to further their agenda is corrupt.

Haha I really can't believe you think we have agendas and are corrupt.

This message board (much like Inforoo and Infobury - which we based the whole idea on) alters curse words so that people who may view the forum at their jobs (with security filters that block curse words) can still access the site. No need to make it another big conspiracy. ;D

[itrainmonkeys]

As I said previously, I have NEVER been asked to empty my pockets and empty my wallet before. That includes the last few years that you seem to think have established this precedent.

Never said it was the precedent.....just that I've had it happen so it's not unheard of. You keep assuming that your experiences are the same for everyone. Just because you haven't had to empty pockets doesn't mean that is the same for everyone who's gone to concerts.

You can continue to insult me and the festival all you want. I'm just going to sit back and let you continue to look crazy.

[armedaneian]

BlTCH, BlTCH, BlTCH... that's all some people do is BlTCH! On top of that, look who you're BlTCHING at! Do you think anyone on this forum is in favor of strict security? Just because we understand the rules, and are smart enough to get around them, doesn't mean we are in favor of unwarranted search and seizure. It simply means we work with what we've got, rather than whine about what "should be". If you want to complain about heavy handed searches, complain to the employee in question. Or just be a smart a$$ and ask them if they want to sniff your balls too... they might just wave you on through!

I've seen shows all over the country... from Florida to California to Maine. Trust me, Maine is unusually lax when it comes to security. Now that you get a taste of what the rest of the country typically deals with, all you can do is whine about it. Grow up, dangle your stash behind your zipper, and SHUT UP! That way the rest of us can just

[mojo4395]

Ok, I've seen this go on for quite a while, and I really feel the need to comment (again). Matt, I'm not some kid, and, while my first concert wasn't in '67, I would put the total number of concerts that I've been to at somewere around 500. Add in professional sporting events, and I'd say that I'm a pretty seasoned vet at this whole thing.

While I've only been asked to open my wallet a handful of times (usually at major sporting events or metal shows), I find it extremely hard to believe that you've never been asked to open your pockets. This is just par for the course pretty much anywhere. I've learned to make it a point just to take everything out of my pocket whenever I pass through security nowadays. I always empty my pockets. Now that my not be necessary everywhere, but I've had friends stopped and told to empty their pockets at Deer Creek, Blossom, Bonnaroo, Rothbury, Polaris in Columbus (before it closed), Alpine Valley, Quicken Arena in Cleveland, Nationwide Arena in Columbus, and dozens of clubs. It's a common procedure, and I'm quite willing to call you out and say that it is absolutely unbelievable (as in I don't believe you) when you say that you have been to "thousands" of shows and never been asked to empty your pockets.

When purchasing your ticket to a show (not just Nateva, but pretty much any show), you are consenting to be searched. I absolutely agree that security guards shouldn't be power-trippy, and that lifting up a girls skirt or intimate patdowns done by members of the opposite sex are inappropriate. If I were to have this happen to me, I would lodge a complaint. I would recommend that anyone who experienced something like this make a complaint, either through the Nateva Facebook page or through email.

As far as complaints about confiscating "personal stashes," drugs are illegal. Yes, they are part of the "culture" of the festival scene, but that doesn't change the fact that they are illegal and, if you choose to partake, you run the risk of getting your stash taken. I know of people that had their bowl taken at Rothbury, and I have a friend that had 3 joints taken at security this year at Bonnaroo. These people weren't dealing, they were just carrying "personal stashes." Any mature drug user recognizes that, when they choose to use illegal drugs, they are taking a risk, and they accept that risk. Honestly, if you get caught with drugs and the only thing that happens is that you lose your stash, you should count yourself ahead of the game.

Finally, we (and proboards) have guidelines for this board when it comes to vulgarity. While we've been relatively loose with enforcement, we have made it a priority to keep this board somewhat clean and family-friendly. So, yes, we have filters in place to edit vulgarity, and we will continue to do so. You'll hear no apologies regarding that.

[joker]

Jul 17, 2010 0:58:05 GMT -5 mattinthehat said:

God, where do I begin?
To start, ITM proves my point that he is absolutely clueless when it comes to our personal rights. Searching wallets is the same as searching bags? Please, stop being the apologist/grouse for Frank & Co.
You sarcastically comment that it is not 1967 anymore. Do you realize how you just made my point? I probably go to more live music performances in a (current) year than you could dream of, so the argument that things have changed is the issue. In the 60's, there was far more drug use than now, yet the security was not intrusive at all. So we fast forward to the present, where someone actually comes on a website and declares that he has no problem with wallet searches. Unbelievable. You are obviously a product of our current public education system. As I said previously, I have NEVER been asked to empty my pockets and empty my wallet before. That includes the last few years that you seem to think have established this precedent. I say BS. Just because other fests do it does not make it right. My comment about Rothbury had nothing to do with security, but was directed at the competition factor. If you have a choice between 2 festivals, and you have good or bad experiences at both, which one do you choose? I think it is safe to say that this board has spoken.

Depending on what security is looking for wallet searches are just as valid as bag searches. In this case the searches appear to have been for sheets so they were most certainly valid searches. Never mind the fact it's pretty easy to stick other drugs into a wallet, joints, and coke to name a couple. Security wasn't as bad back then because, among other reasons, lawsuits, other legal ramifications and the overall vibe of the attendees (much more peaceful back then) weren't that bad. Just because you haven't been asked to empty your pockets or had your wallet checked doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.

As someone who has probably seen as many, if not more, shows than yourself, from both sides of this discussion (my first show was back in 71 and I also work security at a half dozen or so different venues) I can tell you that there are many variables involved in determining the search policy including the venue, the promoter, the artist, hell even the state the show is in plays a part.

You may not like the way the searches are conducted or the depth of them but that doesn't make them "wrong." Hell, I don't like having to go through the purses of women older than we are but sometimes it has to be done. However, there's no reason to insult those who have no problem with the searches just because you disagree with them.

Jul 17, 2010 0:58:05 GMT -5 mattinthehat said:

I would like to share my experiences with the Montreal Jazz Festival. It is 12 days this year, but when I went last time it was 10 days. Most of the downtown area is blocked off, so no traffic. The great part is that the police are stationed on the OUTSIDE of the fences. They only enter in the case of an emergency or a bad crime situation. Otherwise, they stay out. This is as it should be. Anything goes on within the confines of downtown, even on lower St. Catherine street, the infamous home of strip clubs, hookers, and the GLBT crowd, Not to mention the the street racers on their sport bikes. Yet, the cops stay OUTSIDE the barriers. There are beer bars everywhere, but there are also liquor bars as well. People smoke at will, and I assume other illicit activities occur as well. This is the model for how you run a festival and attract the maximum number of people possible. Like 500,000 people. Obviously, Nateva is not on this scale, but the model is the same. If festival goers have a good time, are not hassled (especially by DEA a-holes) and feel relaxed and comfortable, then they will return. If not, they will look at the competition. Business 101.

I've heard nothing but good things about this festival and hope to get up there one year but it's in another country and because of that reason alone, it's like comparing apples and oranges.

Folks like different things from their festivals and no promoter is going to make everyone happy. Personally I prefer security that cracks down hard on the nitrous but lets folks enjoy a smoke and a beer on the concert field so I try to attend smaller family oriented fests rather than the bigger ones.

Here's hoping we all find safe and good times at whatever shows we attend.

[idio]

because it needs repeating...

Jul 16, 2010 23:31:01 GMT -5 snowshoecapital said:

One more time.

You complainers need to stop complaining and instead just figure out a way to do what you want. If you can't figure out that, then don't do it.

You sound like a bunch of eight year olds.

also, why did you bring a $5K bike to a music festival?




and one other point that was a bit concerning, and i forgot who said it - but allowing a search of something (i.e. your wallet) because *you* dont have anything to hide is not a good reason to allow such a search.

keep in mind, im okay with them searching anything you have in your possession as you pass through the gates - but for the reason that I consented to a search when buying the ticket, not because "i dont have anything to hide, so what the hell"

[sparkey1956]

My wife and I are 54 yo and we were probably the straightest and least “sketchy” people there. The searches were way over the top. I was even searched when going to my car in day parking before leaving.

I have never been to a festival where the security was so disrespectful. We all paid good money for our tickets and deserved much better. I won't go back.

[armedaneian]

If they were so disrespectful, why didn't you demand to speak with a supervisor? I may not be as straight as you, and of course you are less "sketchy" , but when a part-time, minimum wager refuses to give me customer service, let alone disrespects me, I take it up with their supervisor. That's what responsible adults do. Whining about it later doesn't accomplish much... have you seen any results?

[armedaneian]

I don't think a 54 year old would say "My wife and I are 54 yo"! To me, that adds a little bit of "sketch" to your persona. Maybe you're not as "straight" as you proclaim.

[direwolf40]

I wish people would stop saying things like "this isn't the place to grouse". Last time I checked this is the place to grouse. Support free expression of ideas even if you don't agree. Stop with the "if you don't like it don't come" BS. Encourage participation and stop trying to make people feel bad all the time. The people who got searched didn't like it and felt violated and all I see is a bunch of people piling on trying to make the poster feel worse.

[direwolf40]

Grouse haha!

[snowshoecapital]

Uh, because I'm into biking. If I have four days off in a row, and they happen to coincide with prime cycling country, I am definitely going to put some miles on! There are some pretty sweet rides in the area. The bike was not brought to tool around the grounds.

Jul 19, 2010 8:41:10 GMT -5 idio said:

also, why did you bring a $5K bike to a music festival?




and one other point that was a bit concerning, and i forgot who said it - but allowing a search of something (i.e. your wallet) because *you* dont have anything to hide is not a good reason to allow such a search.

keep in mind, im okay with them searching anything you have in your possession as you pass through the gates - but for the reason that I consented to a search when buying the ticket, not because "i dont have anything to hide, so what the hell"

[armedaneian]

I think a free expression of ideas is great, but some of the griping is absurd...

This festival sucks and I'm never going back. I can't believe they searched me and took my illegal drugs! What, no balloons? How can you have a festival without balloons. I want my money back!

I encourage everyone to voice their opinion, but if it's ridiculous (like complaining about "segregated" camping) we have a right to treat it as such. As for those who felt violated, they needed to immediately voice their complaints to a supervisor or a cop. You may think that's mean to say, but I think it's constructive... and this is a free expression of ideas!

[direwolf40]

You say that my complaints about segregated camping were ridiculous but it should be noted that it ended up not being segregated and enforced the way some on this board advocated.

It could be that the promoter read the "grousing" of myself and others and felt compelled to make it less concentration camp like.
Maybe the segregating was too difficult to achieve with the layout of the grounds? Who knows?

I do know that my friends were able to visit me all weekend in onsite camping without a problem. If my speaking up led to a more relaxed camping scene then I think my posts were not a waste of time or "ridiculous".

This is an excellent example of why speaking up should not be discouraged no matter how silly or ridiculous you think it is.

Oh yeah, because you are so fond of smilies, here you go:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[armedaneian]

So, to you, following the rules and respecting the price structure is equivalent to running a concentration camp? Good thing you complained, I'm sure that's what helped your cause.

What if this was an amphitheater, where those with seats paid twice as much those on the lawn? To me, your "segregation" complaint was the same as whining about your friends being unable to sit with you, even though they only paid for lawn tickets. In fact, I believe it's the same sentiment some had in Deer Creek. They thought it was unfair to be "segregated" outside the fence, just because there were no tickets left. That was a ridiculous idea, which many believe led to the demise of our scene. I think it's the same false sense of entitlement that made you gripe about camping tickets selling out! If this forum is a free expression of ideas, can't I say that... or am I just piling on, and trying to make you feel worse?


Thanks for the smiles, but the song I'm referring to only has three!

[joker]

Jul 20, 2010 4:34:31 GMT -5 direwolf40 said:

You say that my complaints about segregated camping were ridiculous but it should be noted that it ended up not being segregated and enforced the way some on this board advocated.

It could be that the promoter read the "grousing" of myself and others and felt compelled to make it less concentration camp like.
Maybe the segregating was too difficult to achieve with the layout of the grounds? Who knows?

I do know that my friends were able to visit me all weekend in onsite camping without a problem. If my speaking up led to a more relaxed camping scene then I think my posts were not a waste of time or "ridiculous".

This is an excellent example of why speaking up should not be discouraged no matter how silly or ridiculous you think it is.

Cool, I imagine next year lots more folks will go with the off-site camping tix and then just move into on-site camping.

Let the custies pay extra for on-site. ;D

[velvetc]

What I'm amazed at is that two weeks after the festival people are still complaining about something that happened there. Well guess what? It happened, nothing can change that, and complaining is only keeping the "bad memories" alive. If it upset you that much simply don't go back next year.

One thing I've learned about message boards is that people going to music festivals tend to know the ins and outs of the law better than anyone.

[phrazz]

We are largely all speaking on the basis of pure opinion here. I have consulted several attorneys, and the law is clear to me (as it is to them). I will share with you what they said if you want to know (privately, I don't want to add fuel to this fire of pure conjecture).

We all know the stance of the State of Maine on the issue of pot. This is also clear in other states, and the guidelines at the Federal level also have changed recently. Laws are dynamic, laws can change...but they will change for the worse the moment everyone in lock-step chants that something is illegal, therefore the law must be right. Not all laws are just, and some are purely based on superstition and "mob rule". That is why we have a justice system, and juries of our peers (which is also a subject of monumental contention, because it is super duper important, just like all the complaints here). Laws change daily...with every court case!!!

The moment we say people should stop complaining is the moment we build the walls to our own prisons.

Attorneys and Judges know the law best, not the average festival attendee (nor some hired security personnel w/ no credentials, formal training or certification). Small town cops only know small town laws. Staties tend to know State law best, and same with Feds. Want to know what a former DA has to say? Head of DMV? FBI? ACLU?

I can ask all of these people, but first, I encourage everyone to do some actual research and talk to people who practice law for a living.

-Phrazz

[velvetc]

Jul 20, 2010 21:50:07 GMT -5 phrazz said:

The moment we say people should stop complaining is the moment we build the walls to our own prisons.

I'm not suggesting people just sit back and let injustices happen. But complaining about those injustices on a music festival message board isn't going to change a thing. All that says is that the people complaining are either just complainers, or they are people that want something to be done but they just want someone else to be motivated enough to do something about it.

[joker]

Jul 20, 2010 21:50:07 GMT -5 phrazz said:

Attorneys and Judges know the law best, not the average festival attendee (nor some hired security personnel w/ no credentials, formal training or certification). Small town cops only know small town laws. Staties tend to know State law best, and same with Feds. Want to know what a former DA has to say? Head of DMV? FBI? ACLU?

I can ask all of these people, but first, I encourage everyone to do some actual research and talk to people who practice law for a living.

-Phrazz

As someone with credentials, formal training and certification who now works as hired security I, for one, have looked into this type of thing for my own peace of mind. Although I will admit my knowledge of all the laws regarding these issues in Maine is very limited.

Some of my favorite festivals were when they held GotV up at ILCC in NY where it was held on private property and the bikers had their own set of "laws" regarding searches and what was and wasn't allowed. That place rocks for festivals and as long as you're not dealing or being an a@&$#&$ you're pretty much be allowed to enjoy yourself without having to look over your shoulder.

[armedaneian]

Phrazz, please post the information you've found. If you add that kind of "fuel to this fire", it would no longer be pure conjecture! Why do some of you feel this is a fire anyway? I don't feel like I'm "just piling on, and trying to make [people] feel worse". I'm sharing my opinions and understanding with everyone else. I've been emptying my pockets and having my wallet looked into for over 20 years! I smile all the way through security and want others to smile as well! There's no reason to sweat it and many reasons not to. Whether it's right or wrong, we're all going to be searched again. If we share our experiences, we can be more prepared next time.

I think the laws in question here protect us from the government. They dictate what law enforcement officers can do, if they have probable cause. Do these laws even apply to private security at a private event? Phrazz, and thoughts?

Regardless, privacy may be voluntarily sacrificed. There is a valid concern that we are being coerced to give up our rights in exchange for a perceived benefit of safety... from terrorists. That's not really the issue here. Some were asked to give up their privacy in exchange for admittance to a concert. They had a right to say no, but according to the back of the ticket, wouldn't have been allowed in. Next time, if they bother to sift through this "fire", they'll know to leave their wallets in a safe place and dangle their stash in an unsearchable spot. That way, the security staff will have to buy their own!